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Making your own EMS sensor definitons (Read 15515 times)
Mar 9th, 2010 at 12:51pm

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SkyView has the capability for customers to create their own sensor definitions for the EMS. This way we can "support" a huge variety of installs without needing to do custom software. For low volume sensors where Dynon can't justify doing work ourselves, a customer can make their own assuming they have data about the sensor.

You can find the documentation for the sensor.sfg file here:
http://wiki.dynonavionics.com/Making_your_own_sensor_definitions
 
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Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2010 at 11:36am

Ken Kopp   Online
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I'd like to have a fire detector in the engine compartment.  Can I connect  one of your CHT or EGT thermocouples to any of the spare type A EMS pins and then set an alarm at say 500 deg?   Thanks!

Ken
 
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Reply #2 - Apr 9th, 2010 at 12:14pm

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There's only one pin pair (27/28) that supports a thermocouple, but yep, you can do that without having to change anything in the sensor configuration files.
 
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Reply #3 - Apr 22nd, 2010 at 5:52pm

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I have an RV with a tachometer transducer (product description here-http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1271983553-452-501&browse=...

Can I attach the Skyview ems tach function wires to the transducer as oppossed to the mag P-leads??? thank you Tom
 
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Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2010 at 4:27pm

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Yes, you just use the normal higher voltage rpm inputs (either one of them) for this.
 
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Reply #5 - Jun 20th, 2010 at 8:54pm

Phil Parish   Offline
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Can I display the Flap Position from the IFC-1 (Intelligent Flap Controller) made by http://www.tcwtech.com/IFC-1-page.htm

If this simply a voltage output from the Controller to drive the SkyView Flap Position?

OR

Do I need the RayAllen flap position sensor?

Phil
 
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Reply #6 - Jun 21st, 2010 at 6:47pm

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If it outputted a 0-5DC variable voltage with position information, that would work. But it doesn't look like it does, from their diagram.
 
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Reply #7 - Dec 24th, 2011 at 1:49pm

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I have been studying the EMS file definition programming and need some help.

The latest sensor definition file has everything I need with the exception of one important gauge that I really want to include in my engine monitoring. The gauge is an air fuel ratio meter and gets it's signal from a wide band oxygen sensor in the exhaust, similar to EGTs which I use as back up to this gauge. The big difference is that this gauge puts out a voltage signal from 0 to 5 volts, 0 volts correlating to 7.35, and 5 volts correlating to 22.39. It is linear in between. It is basically a volt meter that reads out in a slightly different scale equating the the air fuel ratio the engine is running on.

I understand that I will need to create a new definition and add it to the file that gets loaded onto the system, as you cannot just add a new definition to the system, you must add to the file and then load the new file onto the system. I am OK with that. If I can just get that one definition I can append it onto the file and load it and be good to go!

The file has pre defined sensor definitions for everything else I need, except this one that I need to have custom made...

I understand most of what is needed as far as characterizing the gauge but coming up with numbers to plug into the polynomial part is over my head. My attempts to get help from Dynon tech support were not successful. I am told they might be able to help me in late January. I guess this means they are way busy..

If someone could help me to write this one program I can handle adding it to the definition file and loading it into the system. Has any body out there figured this out and had any success with it? I understand they are working on a more user friendly method of creating sensor definition files, but in the mean time I could really use some programming help with this.

Anyone willing to help?
my email is rgcrothers@gmail.com

Thanks in advance!

Skyview system retrofit on RV7A with Subaru power. Getting rid of the old Blue Mountain system.
 
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Reply #8 - Dec 26th, 2011 at 8:01am

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Since you have the voltage numbers and a linear function, you should have all the information you need. I think they just recommend you put the information into a spreadsheet to determine the values you need to input. It looks like the example they give may cover your circumstance as long as you have an input that can handle the 22.39v at the top end.
 
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Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2011 at 8:17am

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I am interested in learning how to get the calculations needed in a spreadsheet, and get the results needed. Can you tell me more?

At 0 volts, I want the gauge to read 7.35, at 5 volts, it should read 22.39, and linear in between. In practice I keep my air fuel ratio around 12 to 1 at high power to maybe 13.5 to 1 at low power settings.

Randall
 
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Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2011 at 9:00am

mmarien   Online
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Since it is a linear conversion you may be able to use one of the level or position definitions and put the conversion in the EMS file as a user calibration. That way you wouldn't have to mess with the sensor*.sfg file.

Do a backup of your Skyview and then look for a file called *ems*.dfg. If you have done a fuel level or flap position calibration there should be a "user_cal={" section like this:

     user_cal={
           valid=1
           name=FLAPS POSITION
           num_points=4
           point={
                 volts=2.49874
                 value=0
                 }
           point={
                 volts=2.29713
                 value=10
                 }
           point={
                 volts=2.06589
                 value=35
                 }
           point={
                 volts=1.77456
                 value=70
                 }
           }

In your case you only need two points:

     user_cal={
           valid=1
           name=AIRFUEL POSITION
           num_points=2
           point={
                 volts=0.0
                 value=7.35
                 }
           point={
                 volts=5.0
                 value=22.39
                 }
           }

The AIRFUEL is the NAME of the pin and widget that appears on the screen. Create the pin ranges where ## is the pin connected the device to.

     c37_p##={
           valid=1
           name=AIRFUEL
           id=POSITION
           alarm_type=OFF
           range={
                 max_display=23
                 min_display=7
                 range1_valid=1
                 range1_top=23
                 range1_bot=18
                 range1_name=R1
                 range1_color=RED
                 range2_valid=1
                 range2_top=18
                 range2_bot=15
                 range2_name=R2
                 range2_color=YELLOW
                 range3_valid=1
                 range3_top=15
                 range3_bot=13
                 range3_name=R3
                 range3_color=GREEN
                 range4_valid=1
                 range4_top=13
                 range4_bot=11
                 range4_name=R4
                 range4_color=YELLOW
                 range5_valid=1
                 range5_top=11
                 range5_bot=7
                 range5_name=R5
                 range5_color=RED
                 }
           }

Then create the widget in one of the screen layouts. I think you should be able to create the widget ranges and widget style with Skyview once you load this file back with the user calibration in it.

Worth a try.
 

Glasair II FT - o320 - P-Mags - EFII - MTV 3 Blade CS - VP-X - Single 10" Skyview - ZAON Traffic - zooooom ...
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Reply #11 - Dec 26th, 2011 at 9:10am

Randall   Offline
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Thanks for the detailed reply. It sounds like I may need to wait until I have calibrated my fuel sendors or something to be able to use this method. I do appreciate you taking the time to help!  I will make the backup like you suggest and look for that file to see what I find.
 
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Reply #12 - Dec 26th, 2011 at 4:20pm

mmarien   Online
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Ok. You have my interest as I'm adding electronic fuel injection this winter and need an oxygen sensor to tune it so I did some reading. I believe the linear formula for 0 volts=7.35, 5 volts=22.39 is AFR = 3.008 x volts + 7.35 where 3.008 is the slope (X1) and 7.35 if the Y intercept (X0). So the sensor file is:

sensor={
id=AIR FUEL RATIO
function=POSITION
pins=C37_P8 C37_P22 C37_P31
name=AFR
min_val=7.35
max_val=22.39
resolution=1
round=0.1
is_piecewise=0
low_coeff={
c_x4=0
c_x3=0
c_x2=0
c_x1=3.008
c_x0=7.35
}
low_resistance=NONE
low2high_cross=0
high_coeff={
c_x4=0
c_x3=0
c_x2=0
c_x1=0
c_x0=0
}
high_resistance=NONE
high2low_cross=0
window=.2
shift=3
age=16
}

The last three values are just copied from other sensors so I don't know if they will work. I'm not sure what function to use. It should be RATIO but there are only 7 allowed functions:

+ PRESSURE (PSI)
+ TEMPERATURE (F)
+ VOLTS (VOLTS)
+ AMPS (AMPS)
+ CONTACT (VOLTS)
+ LEVEL (VOLTS)
+ POSITION (VOLTS)

Using LEVEL will probably result in GALS as the unit so POSITION is probably a good choice as there are no units. I'm not sure what widgets can be used with POSITION. Next time I'm at the plane I'm going to use my flap position pin C37_P22 with this sensor and see what widgets it will allow. The voltage range for my flaps is 1.77456 to 2.49874 so with any luck the widget should read from 12.7 to 14.9
 

Glasair II FT - o320 - P-Mags - EFII - MTV 3 Blade CS - VP-X - Single 10" Skyview - ZAON Traffic - zooooom ...
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Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 8:42am

Randall   Offline
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Hey, now we are getting somewhere. When I set up my Blue Mountain sensors I had to manually calibrate each one. The process was tedious and labor intensive but much much simpler than this. For the temp sensors I used water and then oil and physically measured the fluid temps and created a reference table that was used by the EFIS to display properly.

Thank You for putting this together. If I ever make the change back to a real airplane engine Smiley, I will also use EFI. I know Robert from his Subaru days and suspect his product will be excellent. I am using Simple Digital Systems on the Sube and have been quite happy with it for around 200 hours of flight time. Easy to program and as the name implies, it is simple. I use the mixture control knob that will override the programming, using the AFR gauge as my guide.

It is important to have a good guard on the mixture knob...
 
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Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 3:03pm

mmarien   Online
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Thanks Randall. I'll keep that in mind when I install the mixture knob. I can see that it could be disaster to go lean with WOT. Maybe we can convince Dynon to interface with the SDS system the same way they did with VP-X and manage the SDS ECU from Skyview.
 

Glasair II FT - o320 - P-Mags - EFII - MTV 3 Blade CS - VP-X - Single 10" Skyview - ZAON Traffic - zooooom ...
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Reply #15 - Jan 3rd, 2012 at 4:05am

mmarien   Online
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I tried the AIR FUEL RATIO sensor defined above but it needs more work.

I loaded the file and in the EMS settings associated the AIR FUEL RATIO sensor with pin C37_22 which is my Ray Allen flaps potentiometer. On the debug page it shows information changing as I move the flaps up and down, When I select the sensor on one of the layout pages it crashes the system and Skyview restarts. Pin C37_22 reverts to the previous flap sensor.

The other problem is that the POSITION sensor only allows a couple of gauge styles. We need a generic sensor function without any units that will allow all types of gauge styles to be used.
 

Glasair II FT - o320 - P-Mags - EFII - MTV 3 Blade CS - VP-X - Single 10" Skyview - ZAON Traffic - zooooom ...
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Reply #16 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 9:54am

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Position sensors assume they go through user calibration (like fuel levels, flaps, and trim do). You're probably better off to use "volts". This will read "AFR VOLTS" on the screen, but should work otherwise. Volts also gives you full access to all widget types.

We'll consider the addition of a more generic type that won't add Volts or PSI to the end of the label, but it's not a request we get very often so I can't promise a timeframe for that.
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2012 at 9:56am by Dynon Support »  
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Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 2:48pm

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All my temperature senders are Westach brand. In talking on the phone it was determined that the Carb Temp definition is a good match for these. In configuring the gauge I find that using carb temp is limited to 170 degrees as the top end of the range. If I edit the line in the definition that reads max_value 170 to a higher number, will the gauge then be configurable for various fluid temp gauges? I will use one for coolant, oil temp, PSRU temp, fuel temp, etc. I probably need a max value of around 260 F for some of these.

I do understand that if I edit one definition I will need to reload the entire file.

Also, I notice two different carb temp definitions in the file. Can you recommend which one to use, or does it matter in my case?

Thanks for help on this..

Bummer about having AFR read "AFR Volts", but at least it sounds like the hard work 'mmarien" did will work, can you confirm?

RV7A with Subaru power, tearing out the Blue Mountain stuff and changing to Skyview, thus the desire to utilize existing sensors. Some are in very tight quarters and larger models will not fit...
 
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Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2012 at 6:16pm

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We don't guarantee that the calibration constants in the file are valid beyond 170 degrees. When you make a polynomial, you need to give it a range where it's valid, and 170 is the top of that range. You'd need to know the resistances of the sender at higher temps and then run these against the polynomial to see how much error you get.

The two carb temp senders are totally different so we can't tell you which one would work right. 100468 is 10,000 ohms at 25C and 100413 is 3,000 ohms at 25C.
 
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Reply #19 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:15am

Randall   Offline
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I continue to try to learn how to get the needed information for creating a sensor definition from excel, but so far my limited education in this kind of math is keeping me from sucess. There is information on the web that gets me close, but I need help to know I am getting this right. In case someone knows how to do this in Excel, or elswhere, and is willing to get the needed information I will copy the data from the sensor below.

This data is from Westach thermistor temp sensors that have two wires each, which I need for proper grounding of the sensors as they get mounted to several different items like radiator, gearbox, engine block etc. I ground them all to the same location. The data below is from Westach. The column on the left is temperature in F, the column on the right is Ohms of resistance.

0      49500
-10      35500
0      25500
10      18700
20      13800
30      9800
40      7840
50      5970
60      4600
70      3570
80      2780
90      2190
100      1750
110      1400
120      1130
130      915
140      745
150      615
160      507
170      422
180      348
190      296
200      251
210      210
220      178
250      113
300      57
400      16

Thanks for any assistance! I have also sent this in via email to Dynon support. All I really need is the correct numbers to plug in for the values of c_x0 through c_x4. From that point I can edit an existing definition, (carb temp should work), then add this definition to the sensor definiton file, load it into the system and things should be good to go for configuring my five different temperature gauges.

For your interest, the temp gauges will be used on a Subaru engine in my RV7A. I have about 300 hours on it in various configurations. It has ben supercharged and turbocharged with super good performance but not so super reliability... Currently it is normally aspirated with perhaps around 160 HP and good reliability. I intend to build up a turbo motor for it again and get it right this time... I monitor temps for coolant, gearbox, intake air, fuel, and oil. I also monitor 4 EGTs, Air Fuel Ratio, etc. No CHTs of course.

Thanks or any help
Randall
 
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Reply #20 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:34am

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From my reasearch on the web, it appears that pulling the needed data from Excel is done with "LINEST". If the information on how to pull the needed data from Excel could be posted here, perhaps others would be able to use it in the future.

Here is a link that seems to get pretty close to what is needed. http://people.stfx.ca/bliengme/ExcelTips/Polynomial.htm

Randall

 
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Reply #21 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 11:50am

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So using your table above, we were able to compute the following numbers that you can use to edit the sensor file. Note that because of the nature of the sensor, this characterization may not be very accurate below about 70F. It should be within a few degrees above that, though:

c_x4=0.213903638386384
c_x3=-8.53528046571783
c_x2=61.6555092348803
c_x1=-206.50599646988
c_x0=467.308229032624

low_resistance=PULL_UP_200

 
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Reply #22 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 5:40pm

Randall   Offline
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Ahhh, thank you thank you thank you.

I had not anticipated the need for the pull up, but will add it.

I will probably test the set up with one sensor, starting with ice water using a good thermometer for reference, and take it on up to boiling and above (with oil) to verify I am getting good information.

I do appreciate the response and realize I am probably a one off case here, but perhaps others will be able to read the posts above and get a better picture of what is involved in generating one of these definitions.

Randall
 
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Reply #23 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 6:46pm

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No no... the EMS has a pullup. That's one of the lines that you'll see in the config file which tells SkyView which internal pullup to use.
 
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Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 9:37pm

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Right, before editing, the carb temp definition calls out "high_resistance=PULL_UP_10K" I was planing to change that line to "high_resistant=PULL_UP_200K".

With the old Blue Mountian stuff I had to add resistors in line, glad those days are over.

I figure I have pulled well over $20K worth of BMA stuff out of the plane. I guess I got one small victory today as I used the bottom of the old gold box case as a tray to hold the EMS and the back up battery, so I did salvage a little something Cool

Randall
 
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Reply #25 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 10:21pm

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It absolutely needs to be low_resistance, not high, and it needs to be 200, not 200K. The high_resistance is for a more complex sensor configuration and won't affect this sensor.
 
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Reply #26 - Jan 12th, 2012 at 12:34am

Randall   Offline
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Oops, sorry, that was a typo on my part.

Still learning how to get those numbers for myself, I learned that I needed to start out in Excell with a scatter chart, then fit a polynomial trend line, selecting 4th order. Then there is an option to show the equation. That get me alot closer but the numbers don't match up yet...
 
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Reply #27 - Jan 17th, 2012 at 11:48am

Randall   Offline
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I have been successful in getting my Westach Temperature sensor definition added to the sensor file and initially anyway, it looks like they are going to work fine. Thanks to support for crunching the numbers for me to make this part work. I am able to assign the sensors to pins and display the various gauge types etc.

I am still having some difficulty with the AFR gauge that I would like to display. I have an electrically dependant engine so it is very important for me to monitor both my main and backup busses, so I have pins 1 and 2, the only pins labled as voltage inputs on the DB37, used to monitor those voltages.

I was hoping to use pin 22 for the AFR and call the function voltage, but it will not allow that use. Is there any way to use one of the other functions to allow the AFR display? Input is linear voltage signal from 0 to 5 volts. I hate to have to cut a hole in the panel for an AFR Steam Gauge but it seams like I may be up against the limits of the system as it stands today? Any hope for a generic sensor as mentioned above by mmarien? Other possible solutions?

FWIW, I also have had my system crash and reboot when trying to configure the AFR on pin 22. I have the sensor definition in the file, specifying pin 22 as one of the pins suitable for use, and for some reason pin 22 keeps showing up as an available sensor in the sensor display widget page, even though I have selected "unused" in the pin mapping. If I select it the system crashes and reboots.

Randall
 
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Reply #28 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 6:40pm

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So if it's a 0-5V output, you should be able to use it on one of the "C" type inputs, which can be used without a resistor per the sensor file. Though you can have the numericals be any value, you'll need to choose a type like "TEMPERATURE" or "PRESSURE" to be able to use it. If you have a table of a bunch of values for that sensor, we can run it through for you like the last one.
 
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Reply #29 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 7:57pm

mmarien   Online
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I installed a bosch O2 sensor and used the sensor definition from the following post and it works. I had to use VOLTS as the unit so the gauge shows AFR VOLTS but it seems to work.

http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1268164287/17#12
 

Glasair II FT - o320 - P-Mags - EFII - MTV 3 Blade CS - VP-X - Single 10" Skyview - ZAON Traffic - zooooom ...
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Reply #30 - Nov 22nd, 2012 at 9:00am

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Is there a way to change the max value of an Info item.

My max fuel is 350g, the max fuel that the Skyview will accept is 260g...
 
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Reply #31 - Nov 27th, 2012 at 4:50pm

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Not that one, unfortunately. It think you may have run into a hard-coded limit. We've filed a but for our engineering team to take a look at this.
 
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Reply #32 - Mar 28th, 2013 at 5:53am

Weasel   Offline
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I am having trouble getting a reading from one of the inputs on my skyview.

I have an input that is

.01 volt = 10
.02 volt = 20
.03 volt = 30

I have the sensor setup as follows

sensor={
     id=VOLTAGE MEASURE
     ;VERIFIED POLY, FILTER?
     function=VOLTS
     pins=C37_P31
     name=T_MAP
     name=IGN
     name=TIMING
     name=MAIN
     name=BACKUP
     min_val=0.0
     max_val=40.0
     resolution=1
     round=.1
     is_piecewise=0
     low_coeff={
           c_x4=0
           c_x3=0
           c_x2=0
           c_x1=100
           c_x0=0
           }
     low_resistance=NONE
     low2high_cross=0
     high_coeff={
           c_x4=0
           c_x3=0
           c_x2=0
           c_x1=0
           c_x0=0
           }
     high_resistance=NONE
     high2low_cross=0
     window=.2
     shift=3
     age=16
     }


What am I doing wrong?


I have tried c_x1=1 and c_x1=10 and it makes no change

I am reading .1 units on the display when I should read 10.0
 
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Reply #33 - Mar 28th, 2013 at 6:09am

Dynon Support   Offline
Forum Administrator
Dynon Employee
Dynon Technical Support

Posts: 11098
*****
 
I bet you have another sensor in your file named VOLTAGE MEASURE. You can only have one of the same ID, or it will use the first one and ignore the second one (or other way around, I forget).

Also, don't expect great accuracy from this. You're asking it to read millivolts. While we do have a digitizer resolution that is right around a millvolt, in practice that means you should be pretty happy to get .05V resolution. So we can probably tell the difference between 10 degrees and 20 degrees of timing, but likely not 20 and 24.

It's also going to be a very noisy measurment unless you put a lot of filtering on it.
 
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Reply #34 - Jul 14th, 2014 at 1:11pm

ChrisG   Offline
New Member
I love flying!
Atlanta

Posts: 9
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Dynon Support wrote on Jan 4th, 2012 at 9:54am:
We'll consider the addition of a more generic type that won't add Volts or PSI to the end of the label, but it's not a request we get very often so I can't promise a timeframe for that.

If this isn't available already, +1!

(Air-Fuel-Ratio sensor on order soon...)
 
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