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ADS-B Out flight check failed (Read 4300 times)
Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:03pm

RVDan   Offline
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I recently upgraded my SV system to the SV-GPS-2020.  The SW is upgraded to 14.0.1 and the transponder SW was upgraded.  With the aircraft outside and the GPS receiving satellites, the transponder page in setup shows everything good.

Initiated a flight from an airport in marginal ADS-B coverage (KCBE) direct to one with ADS-B coverage to the ground (KFDK).  The flight was 36 minutes and straight line at 5500 ft MSL except for a 360 degree, 30 degree banked turn left then right.

The results back for the FAA were good except for NACp which showed GPS out of limits for 2.7% of the flight.  Need to solve this.  There are no drops shown for the messages, just the GPS position accuracy exceeding limits. 

Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:11pm by RVDan »  
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Reply #1 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:05pm

Dynon Support   Offline
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Dan:

If there's been less than 1 hour of SkyView operation since this issue, can you send us a Dynon Diagnostic File?

RVDan wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:03pm:
I recently upgraded my SV system to the SV-GPS-2020.  The SW is upgraded to 14.0.1 and the transponder SW was upgraded.  With the aircraft outside and the GPS receiving satellites, the transponder page in setup shows everything good.

Initiated a flight from an airport in marginal ADS-B coverage (KCBE) direct to one with ADS-B coverage to the ground (KFDK).  The flight was 36 minutes and straight line at 5500 ft MSL except for a 306 degree, 30 degree banked turn left then right.

The results back for the FAA were good except for NACp which showed GPS out of limits for 2.7% of the flight.  Need to solve this.  There are no drops shown for the messages, just the GPS position accuracy exceeding limits. 

Any suggestions?

 

Please do not use Private Messaging on forum to contact. For private support:
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Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:13pm

RVDan   Offline
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There has been no flight time since the test flight.  I'll download the diagnostic file and submit along with the FAA report.  I believe that I have access to the detailed ADS-B track data from the FAA and may check that also.
 
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Reply #3 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:01am

Leaph737   Offline
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I have the same issue going on with my system as well.....
 
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Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:23am

jabarr   Offline
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I received the same results for NIC and NACp.   Virtually identical numbers as above post.   A recent flight showed all OK.  No changes between flights.
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:35am by jabarr »  
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Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 5:47pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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Can any of you that are seeing instances of this send your reports (we may also want diagnostic logs if you can pull one) and send them to us at support at dynonavionics.com so that we can look into this more closely? Include a link to this thread too.
 

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Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 6:42pm

jabarr   Offline
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Dynon has a very recent diagnostic file sent for case #223031 however a recent flight was reported as working fine.  No changes were made between the bad and good reports.
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:03pm

Leaph737   Offline
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jabbar where is the location of your GPS antenna?
« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:42pm by Leaph737 »  
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Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 5:34am

jabarr   Offline
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On top of fuselage behind canopy. (RV7)
 
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Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 2:35pm

RVDan   Offline
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RVDan wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 6:13pm:
There has been no flight time since the test flight.  I'll download the diagnostic file and submit along with the FAA report.


I uploaded my diagnostic file from last week for N199EC.  Antenna location- RV-6 1 ft aft of the canopy on fuselage centerline (top).  This location shouldn't be shadowed by wing or tail surfaces. 

« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2016 at 2:39pm by RVDan »  
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Reply #10 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:26pm

Leaph737   Offline
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I spoke with Mike H yesterday and he is escalating our issue up the chain. I am thinking this might be a software issue but will await Dynon's next step. Cheesy
 
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Reply #11 - Feb 29th, 2016 at 7:48am

airguy   Offline
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How are you receiving this report, do you just request an ADSB report from ATC while flying, or do you need something else?
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 29th, 2016 at 9:37am

Leaph737   Offline
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You send an email to the FAA requesting it.
 
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Reply #13 - Feb 29th, 2016 at 12:24pm

airguy   Offline
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Dynon - I got my report back from the FAA and it shows the same failures as above. Could this be caused by one screen rebooting due to the V14.0 bug and temporarily disrupting ADSB?
 
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Reply #14 - Mar 3rd, 2016 at 1:11pm

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Leaph737 wrote on Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:26pm:
I spoke with Mike H yesterday and he is escalating our issue up the chain. I am thinking this might be a software issue but will await Dynon's next step. Cheesy


OK - we are looking at some of the logs now and have detailed FAA radar data of a particular flight. The good news is that in all of the cases we looked at, the GPS is performing very well and is NOT the source of the NIC and NACp values of 0. Evidence to date indicates something between SkyView and the transponder, inside the transponder, or the transponder and the FAA radar site is creating the occasional values of 0 when we would expect something more like 8. This is where we are focusing our efforts. The GPS side of the equation seems to be fine right now so please don't be thinking about drilling new holes in your bird for the time being.

We will post again when we find out more information.
 

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Reply #15 - Mar 3rd, 2016 at 4:17pm

RVDan   Offline
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Thanks for the update.
 
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Reply #16 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:32pm

RV711AC   Offline
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On this subject, I passed the flight check when I first installed the Dynon transponder and upgraded the FW in my 430W. There have been several FW updates to Skyview since. When is it prudent to repeat the flight check?
 
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Reply #17 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 8:15pm

Steve W.   Offline
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RV711AC wrote on Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:32pm:
On this subject, I passed the flight check when I first installed the Dynon transponder and upgraded the FW in my 430W. There have been several FW updates to Skyview since. When is it prudent to repeat the flight check?


If it were me, in this case...

January of 2020. Smiley
 
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Reply #18 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 8:07am

acepilot59   Offline
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I failed my FAA flight test of my ADSB and GPS software yesterday.  I had recently up dated my SkyView software to the 14.0.1 software and changed the SV-GPS-250 software to transmit SDA/SDL=1.
The error message that I got from the FAA is significantly different than the others posted. See attached.
 
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Reply #19 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 8:19am

n456ts   Offline
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acepilot59 wrote on Mar 9th, 2016 at 8:07am:
SV-GPS-250 software to transmit SDA/SDL=1.


The SV-GPS-250 doesn't meet 91.227.  You will have to replace it with the SV-GPS-2020 to meet 91.227.  The new software update just allows you to get traffic with your current setup until December 31, 2019.
 
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Reply #20 - Mar 9th, 2016 at 12:24pm

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The report you receive from the FAA is whether or not you are compliant with 91.227 (what will be required as of 2020). With an SV-GPS-250, you aren't... and cannot be... compliant with 91.227 as the SV-GPS-250 is not a high integrity GPS, as required by 91.227.

See your SkyView system - SETUP MENU > TRANSPONDER SETUP > USA 91.227 COMPLIANT will say NO.

What we did for the SV-GPS-250 in v14.0.x.xxx and later is to improve the transmitted SIL/SDA to 1 (was 0). SIL/SDA=1 is the minimum required as of January, 2016 for the FAA to send your system traffic data from the ADS-B system. That change had nothing to do with the requirements of 91.227 that will be in effect as of 2020-01-01.

acepilot59 wrote on Mar 9th, 2016 at 8:07am:
I failed my FAA flight test of my ADSB and GPS software yesterday.  I had recently up dated my SkyView software to the 14.0.1 software and changed the SV-GPS-250 software to transmit SDA/SDL=1.
The error message that I got from the FAA is significantly different than the others posted. See attached.

 

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Reply #21 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:28pm

RVDan   Offline
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Dynon, has this issue been resolved with the latest SW changes?
 
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Reply #22 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 2:39pm

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Which issue, specifically, are you referring to?

RVDan wrote on Mar 29th, 2016 at 12:28pm:
Dynon, has this issue been resolved with the latest SW changes?

 

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Reply #23 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 6:47pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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The 14.1 update that went live today doesn't address this. We're still looking into the issue that is causing some of you to experience some metrics (NIC and NACp) being flagged on your FAA reports (I think this is the issue you're asking about? This is a long thread). We'll have a further software update in the coing weeks that may also contain a transponder update to fix that issue.
 

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Reply #24 - Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:00am

C. Windham   Offline
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I have Sky View Classic, one 10" and one 7", SV261 transponder and GPS 2020.  I have made 2 attempts to pass the ADS-B performance requirements.  Both attempts have failed because of NIC.
Last results today, %Fail  0.47%
                         MAX dt   00:00:13
                         MCF        13
I have the latest software in the Sky Views and I believe the latest software in the SV 261.  SW 2.11.
I have attempted to understand what this means but that is not clear to me.
What I really want/need to know is how to resolve this issue.  I have monitored the GPS status while the test was being performed and the signal was, based upon my observation, always 3D diff.
I am located in a sparse coverage area in NE Tennessee so today I flew near the class C airspace at Knoxville.
The first attempt and second were similar in failure.
I am not sure if this failure is due to the receiving station not getting the information or of the transmitted data is suspect.
Any suggestions?

Best regards,
Chuck

 
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Reply #25 - Nov 23rd, 2018 at 9:38pm

GalinHdz   Offline
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Try flying ABOVE the Class "C" airspace, always staying within the lateral boundaries of the airspace, for more than 30 minutes then check the report. If your SkyView system (including transponder) has the latest software updates and is configured correctly you should get a good report. Sometimes just flying "near" a particular airspace is not good enough for the FAA to get good data during your flight.

Cool
« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2018 at 9:43pm by GalinHdz »  

N819PR
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Reply #26 - Nov 24th, 2018 at 7:37am

kellym   Offline
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C. Windham wrote on Nov 22nd, 2018 at 10:00am:
I have Sky View Classic, one 10" and one 7", SV261 transponder and GPS 2020.  I have made 2 attempts to pass the ADS-B performance requirements.  Both attempts have failed because of NIC.
Last results today, %Fail  0.47%
                         MAX dt   00:00:13
                         MCF        13
I have the latest software in the Sky Views and I believe the latest software in the SV 261.  SW 2.11.
I have attempted to understand what this means but that is not clear to me.
What I really want/need to know is how to resolve this issue.  I have monitored the GPS status while the test was being performed and the signal was, based upon my observation, always 3D diff.
I am located in a sparse coverage area in NE Tennessee so today I flew near the class C airspace at Knoxville.
The first attempt and second were similar in failure.
I am not sure if this failure is due to the receiving station not getting the information or of the transmitted data is suspect.
Any suggestions?

Best regards,
Chuck


Did you originally have the GPS2020 or the GPS250? Have you updated the serial port selection to GPS2020?
Is the transponder configured correctly for your aircraft size, speed, etc?
I recall one friend installing GPS2020 as an upgrade, but not changing from GPS 250 to 2020 on the serial port. The GPS worked fine, but because of the wrong selection it was still outputing SIL 1 rather than the proper SIL 3. Once that was corrected, all was fine. Can't comment about the airspace as I am based under Class B shelf.
Kelly
 
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Reply #27 - Nov 24th, 2018 at 2:06pm

C. Windham   Offline
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Thanks for the replies.  I have only had the GPS2020.  Never had the 250.
I believe that the transponder is configured correctly.
The GPS2020 populates most of the information on the SV.
The only parameter that it did not pass was the NIC.  Everything else is OK. with the exception of the NACv which is yellow.  While I have read the FAA PAPR Users Guide, which is very informative, I am not sure what the cure is for this issue.  Maybe I just need to fly in class C airspace for 30 minutes.
On the last test the NACv is showing in yellow.  It should have a value of 2, according to the PAPR Users Guide, and I am seeing a 3 and 4.  The PAPR Users Guide says that this is an equipment setting but I don't see a parameter for setting NACv value on the SV.
I will be contacting Dynon on Monday to see if they can help me with this issue.  I am hoping that it is not some parameter that I am not setting correctly and that it is an easy fix. Of course, both of those could be true. We will see.

Looks like the NACv is a known(by Dynon) issue.

Best regards,
Chuck
« Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2018 at 2:16pm by C. Windham »  
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