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Yaw Damper for RV10 (Read 1327 times)
Apr 20th, 2017 at 5:49pm

GaryK   Offline
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Dynon,
Any news on when you'll be releasing documentation on installation and operation of the new Yaw Damper announced a few weeks ago. Also what is the timeframe for product ready to ship.

Thanks
Gary
 
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Reply #1 - Apr 21st, 2017 at 5:33pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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The two supported airframes will be the RV-10 and RV-14. The tiller arm / bow will be available from us shortly (within a week or maybe a bit more, probably?), with the remainder of the airframe installation kit available from Van's. Documentation is still being updated.
 

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Reply #2 - Apr 22nd, 2017 at 12:04am

cdeerinck   Offline
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Dynon - Do you foresee any difficulty in retrofitting the kit to other RVs, such as an RV-8?
 
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Reply #3 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:58am

RayInGA   Offline
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cdeerinck wrote on Apr 22nd, 2017 at 12:04am:
Dynon - Do you foresee any difficulty in retrofitting the kit to other RVs, such as an RV-8?


The 10 and 14 have cables down the center of the cabin, which allows for easy installation. Planes with cables down each side would be more difficult and likely require installation in the tail. I'd expect someone in the EAA world will make something work in the future, if Dynon and Vans don't.

 

Ray Eaker
RV-7A flying since 27 Jan 2017
Dual Skyview 1000T with all the standard Dynon VFR goodies and ADS-B out.
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Reply #4 - May 10th, 2017 at 10:37pm

woxofswa   Offline
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When I spoke with Dynon I was told that they would have an install kit shortly and that Van's would have the bracket.
However, when I spoke with Van's they said that they have a complete install kit with everything but the servo, however, here's the kicker, according to Van's, they are only producing a kit for the 14, and not the 10. That struck me as truly odd because there are hundreds of 10's flying and only a handful of 14's.  They said that the 14 kit "should be able to be modified" to work in a 10, but the 10 adaptation is not officially supported by Van's.  The Van's kit was pricey at about $160 for the install kit.

I've got to believe there is some miscommunication somewhere.
 
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Reply #5 - May 11th, 2017 at 10:29am

GaryK   Offline
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Thanks for the update. I was told the same thing by Dynon almost a month ago, seems it taking longer than anticipated.

 
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Reply #6 - May 11th, 2017 at 5:35pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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So they provide the lion's share of the installation hardware, although just the other day we were told that the kit applies to the RV-10 and the RV-14, although the plans show the RV-14. Builders may install the kit on the RV-10 using the plans as a reference. (this is an almost-direct quote from Van's)

Van's charges $160 for their kit. Our servo is $750, and the tiller arm/bow accessory (that is almost available) from us is $150. It's a bit more than the other axes due to the expected volume. At those prices, we're about half the price of the other guys for the equivalent setup.
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2017 at 5:35pm by Dynon Avionics »  

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Reply #7 - May 12th, 2017 at 9:40pm

jakej   Offline
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I'm figuring it will be useable & useful for us Glasair guys too Smiley
 
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Reply #8 - Jun 6th, 2017 at 7:08pm

GaryK   Offline
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OK Dynon... Any news on when this will be released? Would also like to see the install documentation. Will the Yaw Damper be  controlled through the AP buttons on the EFIS. I have the remote AP buttons panel also. Will the Yaw Damper aways by on when the AP is on. Was hoping it could be turned on independent of the AP Heading and Pitch mode. Would like to engage after take off while hand flying the departure.

Thanks
Gary
 
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Reply #9 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 9:10am

RayInGA   Offline
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I suspect the details needed for the documentation are waiting on Vans or other volunteers to assemble.
 

Ray Eaker
RV-7A flying since 27 Jan 2017
Dual Skyview 1000T with all the standard Dynon VFR goodies and ADS-B out.
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Reply #10 - Jun 7th, 2017 at 5:49pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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So the installation of the servo tiller arm/bow kit is available here: http://www.dynonavionics.com/autopilot-components-documentation.php

The installation information of the servo to the RV airframes comes from Vans (I believe - but am not sure - that it is available).

The SkyView setup portion isn't documented yet (sorry for this - we've had a staffing issue that has left us behind the curve here), but should be pretty straightforward if you're familiar with the AP setup menus. A few things though:

The disconnect switch on the yaw servo is used not for normal AP disconnect, but as an optional discreet on/off for the yaw damper. The switch - if installed - should be momentary. IE press to turn on. Press again to turn off. This is not strictly required, though, because the current behavior is as follows:

The yaw damper nominally comes on and off with the AP. IE, turn AP on, yaw damper comes on. Turn AP off, yaw damper goes off.

If you want to hand-fly with yaw damper, though, or turn off the yaw damper while under AP, you can separately turn the yaw damper on and off via either a menu button on SkyView, or by the aforementioned external pushbutton.
 

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Reply #11 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 2:49pm

GaryK   Offline
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Dynon,
Can one of buttons on the AP panel be configured to switch the Yaw Damper on and off or only on the SV AP menu.

Thanks
Gary
 
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Reply #12 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 4:50pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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Only the AP menu, but also that servo's disconnect switch can act as a discreet toggle for just the yaw damper servo.
 

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Reply #13 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:01am

GaryK   Offline
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Does the discreet toggle wire need to run back to the SV42 or will the connection be to the SVD1000? I have the parts coming in and just want to get the wiring runs done up front if needed. This is on a flying aircraft. From the Van's documentation  (RV14 Sec 58) the 7 wires controlling the SV42 Yaw Servo are connected to the existing pitch servo wiring. They don't mention the discreet switch wiring.

Appreciate your help,
Gary
 
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Reply #14 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:28am

RayInGA   Offline
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It would need to go to the servo. It's just a momentary switch to ground to tell the servo to disengage.
 

Ray Eaker
RV-7A flying since 27 Jan 2017
Dual Skyview 1000T with all the standard Dynon VFR goodies and ADS-B out.
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Reply #15 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 8:13am

GaryK   Offline
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I get that its a momentary switch. Just thinking it the Software on the SV can disengage the Yaw servo independent of the others there might to a way wire it up to the 37 pin connector.

Not an issue if I need to run the wire just more work  Smiley

Gary
 
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Reply #16 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 4:50pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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And to clarify, the wire that on other servos is a disconnect, is actually a toggle if connected on a servo installed as a yaw damper. In other words, if the servo is off, a momentary button push of the connected button will turn it on. If the servo is on, a momentary push of that button will turn it off.
 

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Reply #17 - Jul 10th, 2017 at 8:18am

GaryK   Offline
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The install and configuration was straight forward in a flying 10. I have the torque and sensitivity settings configured and is working well. I would like to tweak it some but need to understand Rudder Rate and AY Gain. Can you explain how they effect the servo.

Thanks
Gary

Left a message on the tech line but thought other my check here for the same questions.

 
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Reply #18 - Jul 10th, 2017 at 6:05pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
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We don't currently have those, but we'll get you some guidance.
 

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Reply #19 - Jul 11th, 2017 at 10:17am

Lawrence Doan   Offline
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Hi Gary,

I can help with specific tweaks if you like, but here's the basics of the settings:

Sensitivity - As with other AP axes, this affects all other settings.  In most installations the default value of "10" should be sufficient.  Changing it may require readjusting the other settings.

Rudder Gain - This controls how active the rudder is at countering tail wag in turbulence and countering nose swing due to adverse yaw.   Adjust this first.  If the YD starts fighting entry into turns, back off a bit.

AY Gain - This controls how much rudder is used to center the ball.  Use sparingly to help center the ball in turns.

Rudder Rate - This controls how fast the rudder will trim out the ball in cruise.  Keep small.

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Lawrence Doan
Aeronautical/Autopilot Engineer
 
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Reply #20 - Jul 11th, 2017 at 6:37pm

GaryK   Offline
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Lawrence,
That's for the settings explaination. Most make sense but the AY gain is somewhat of a mystery.
My settings are:
Torque. 90
Sensitivity 4
Rudder Gain .2
Rudder Rate 0.020
AY Gain 0.005

It seemed when the sensitivity was higher the rudder was too active.

BTW.
My pitch and roll servos are perfect after using the AP guide.

Gary
 
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Reply #21 - Jul 13th, 2017 at 10:40am

Lawrence Doan   Offline
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Gary,

Sounds good.  What behavior are you trying to tweak?


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Lawrence Doan
Aeronautical/Autopilot Engineer
 
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Reply #22 - Jul 17th, 2017 at 8:00am

GaryK   Offline
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The sensitivity just seems to be set too low compared to the roll and pitch axis.

Gary
 
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Reply #23 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 1:04pm

woxofswa   Offline
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DO NOT USE THE DEFAULT SETTINGS!

I had searched the support software to no avail so I tried my Y/D out in my RV10 this morning with just the default settings.
Holy Moly, the tail started oscillating back and forth in pure flutter mode stronger with each oscillation.  I was grateful for the shutoff switch. 
After landing at my cheap gas spot, I searched for more info and left a message for tech support.  Fortunately, I stumbled upon this thread and I put in Gary's settings.  The biggest change was the AY gain where Gary has .005 and the default was 1.0  Huge difference.
Once airborne again I mustered the courage to turn it on again and to my delight, it worked quite nice.  Pretty cool actually.  Huge thanks to GaryK!  I would recommend that everyone start with Gary's settings.  Later when Dynon called me, I recommended the same.
 
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Reply #24 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 3:11pm

Lawrence Doan   Offline
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The default AY gain is supposed to be zero, we'll look into what's going on.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

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Lawrence Doan
Aeronautical/Autopilot Engineer
 
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Reply #25 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 5:21pm

Lawrence Doan   Offline
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RV-10 Defaults

    Yaw Sens: 5
    Rudder Gain: 0.25
    AY Gain: 0
    Rudder Rate: 0.005

Adjustment process

    With AY Gain zero, engage YD and observe behaviour.  If any oscillation or snaking occurs, turn down Sensitivity until it goes away.

    Once Sensitivity is set, observe 'tail wag' behaviour.  One way to do this is to engage the AP in HDG or TRK mode and kick the rudder to get the ball off center, then engage the YD after releasing the rudder.   The nose should quickly settle down compared to the same kick with the YD off.  Gradually increase RUDDER GAIN to increase damping.

        If increasing RUDDER GAIN does not produce an improvement, increase Sensitivity and try again.

    Initiate turns in HDG or TRK mode.  With the YD on there will be a slight hesitation as the bank starts.  If this is excessive, increase AY gain slightly, or reduce RUD GAIN.

    RUD RATE should be adjusted so that the the ball is trimmed to the center in approximately 30 seconds to one minute in level flight.


 
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Reply #26 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 5:22pm

Lawrence Doan   Offline
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It looks like there's a glitch in setting updates that can cause AY Gain to be incorrectly set to 1, so please use the defaults in the above post.

Lawrence Doan wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 3:11pm:
The default AY gain is supposed to be zero, we'll look into what's going on.  Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

--
Lawrence Doan
Aeronautical/Autopilot Engineer

 
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Reply #27 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 6:41am

GaryK   Offline
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Lawrence,
I'll try the above and fine tune.

Woxofswa,
I had the exact same experience. Was also glad I installed the YD on/off button!! The YD definitely helps in turbulence. I know people think it may be overkill but it's just another tool in my book. The YD does an amazing job of keeping the ball centered in the climb. Really nice to be able to switch it on while hand flying the pitch and roll.

The install directions from VANS are good, I did vary in one area. Trying the get the spring clamps to hold the rudder cables tight enough just wasn't working for me. Had my wife apply moderate pressure to the rudder pedals while seated in the copilot seat(rudder was clamped straight) while I installed the bridle clamps. Worked like a charm with no slop.

Gary
 
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