Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Dynon Avionics, Inc.
 
Welcome to the Dynon Avionics forum!


  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
New FAA ADS-B policy (Read 624 times)
Oct 27th, 2018 at 7:37pm

kellym   Offline
Junior Member
I love flying!

Posts: 51
**
 
While the FAA is offering a new refund program, at the same time they have quietly disallowed the GPS-250 that originally was supposed to be good as a source until Dec 2019.  Those using the GPS-250 are getting letters telling them their ADS-B does not meet requirements and must be corrected in 45 days or they will no longer get traffic from ground stations. The only solution is to take out your credit card and order a GPS-2020.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 4:50am

Skysailor   Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 399
****
 
The GPS 250 was never an allowed source. This is not a policy change.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:07am

wmince   Offline
Full Member
Clearwater, FL

Gender: male
Posts: 227
***
 
Skysailor wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 4:50am:
The GPS 250 was never an allowed source. This is not a policy change.

Absolutely correct.
« Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:08am by wmince »  
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:26pm

kellym   Offline
Junior Member
I love flying!

Posts: 51
**
 
wmince wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 8:07am:
Skysailor wrote on Oct 28th, 2018 at 4:50am:
The GPS 250 was never an allowed source. This is not a policy change.

Absolutely correct.

You totally misunderstand. The GPS 250 was never approved for 2020. It was however, an acceptable source until 2020. That is what just changed. Dynon was able to show that it met the requirements for SIL 1 performance, and users of the 250 were able to get full TIS-B service until a month ago. Originally those 250 owners would not have had to purchase a GPS 2020 until Dec. 2019. Now they have to do that replacement immediately. Otherwise their reception of TIS traffic will be turned off immediately.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Oct 29th, 2018 at 8:15pm

n456ts   Offline
Full Member
Do not write below this
line

Posts: 157
***
 
It would be nice to get some clarification from Dynon, as they said they got the FAA's ok for the GPS-250 until 2020.

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 6:19am

airguy   Offline
Senior Member
SkyView Flight Tester
Gods Country - west Texas

Gender: male
Posts: 371
****
 
n456ts wrote on Oct 29th, 2018 at 8:15pm:
It would be nice to get some clarification from Dynon, as they said they got the FAA's ok for the GPS-250 until 2020.



It's not the first time the FAA has said one thing, and then later done another.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 10:48am

CGameProgrammer   Offline
Full Member
I love flying!

Posts: 130
***
 
Honestly the deadline is in a year and the technology won't change or get any cheaper in that time so you might as well upgrade now. The GPS antenna is a really simple component to replace.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 1:20pm

kellym   Offline
Junior Member
I love flying!

Posts: 51
**
 
CGameProgrammer wrote on Oct 30th, 2018 at 10:48am:
Honestly the deadline is in a year and the technology won't change or get any cheaper in that time so you might as well upgrade now. The GPS antenna is a really simple component to replace.

Once again, it is not "just" an antenna. The puck is the entire GPS receiver, including antenna. The wiring connections are RS232.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 1:49pm

Steve W.   Offline
Expert

Posts: 1027
*****
 
kellym wrote on Oct 30th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
CGameProgrammer wrote on Oct 30th, 2018 at 10:48am:
Honestly the deadline is in a year and the technology won't change or get any cheaper in that time so you might as well upgrade now. The GPS antenna is a really simple component to replace.

Once again, it is not "just" an antenna. The puck is the entire GPS receiver, including antenna. The wiring connections are RS232.


Same 4 wires as the 250.  Unplug one set, plug in the other, end of story.  It's not even very expensive, listing at $590.

Not sure what all the griping is about, especially since it's the FAA that's giving the grief.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 2:15pm

RayInGA   Offline
Expert
I love aviation!
Richmond Hill, GA

Gender: male
Posts: 531
*****
 
kellym wrote on Oct 30th, 2018 at 1:20pm:
Once again, it is not "just" an antenna. The puck is the entire GPS receiver, including antenna. The wiring connections are RS232.


LOL. Dude. Okay, it's not just an antenna. It is a receiver. Go ahead an file and IFR flight plan with it as your approved navigation device and go fly in the clouds.  Grin
 

Ray Eaker
RV-7A flying since 27 Jan 2017
Dual Skyview 1000T with all available Dynon VFR goodies
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Oct 30th, 2018 at 5:20pm

Dynon Avionics   Offline
Dynon Official
Dynon Technical Support

Posts: 13047
*****
 
So the whole -250 vs -2020 thing is nuanced. A couple of years ago, because of the way the SIL=0 (-250 at the time) ADS-B Out reports interact with other traffic, FAA decided to consider SIL=0 aircraft the same as completely unequipped. So -250 equipped aircraft stopped receiving aggregated traffic from the ADS-B ground stations. We looked, determined that we meet the requirements to be a SIL=1 device, and asked if those wake up the system and get sent traffic back. The FAA confirmed that they would. I don't think that they ever promised that it would work until -2020, but I don't think we anticipated that they'd change anything after that. What is true is that you don't have to have a compliant Out solution (which would require a -2020 or other certified GPS position source) until 2020. That isn't the same as saying "the -250 will work until -2020". Now that the FAA is ramping up automated compliance testing, they've determined that ANY non-compliant emitter will not receive traffic back. We can't speak for them, but I suspect that the approach is to tighten things up as 2020 approaches. If we weren't only year or so from the actual mandate deadline, we'd probably look into whether or not there were other solutions (like we did years ago with the SIL=1 solution) that would preserve traffic, but at this point, with the mandate around the corner, and the -2020 being perhaps the most affordable way to update to be compliant, we think that our efforts aren't best spent trying to have the FAA issue a temporary reprieve here.

 

Please do not use Private Messaging on form to contact. For private support:
Email: support at dynonavionics dot com
Phone: 425-402-0433 (7am-5pm Pacific weekdays)
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Nov 4th, 2018 at 7:10am

kellym   Offline
Junior Member
I love flying!

Posts: 51
**
 

LOL. Dude. Okay, it's not just an antenna. It is a receiver. Go ahead an file and IFR flight plan with it as your approved navigation device and go fly in the clouds. Grin [/quote]
Receiver does not mean or equal IFR approved receiver, much less IFR Approach approved receiver.  Of course today's FAA thinks you need a 1950s needle or pair of needles to follow, and a pre-loaded flight plan to take you over each fix in the approach plate with little or no input from the pilot.
Oh for the days when one had to manually tune an ADF to 3 NDBs in sequence to fly an NDB approach.
As opposed to using mush for brains and following a magenta line. Grin
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print